My Problems With Brain Bread At This Point |
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My Problems With Brain Bread At This Point| Macdeth |
Posted: July 03, 2006 12:40 am
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Rotten Meat Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: July 02, 2006  |
NOTE: YES, I did post this in the BB forum; I did not see that there was a BB:S forum. Yes, I am in fact blind. Note, these are the problems with BB as of now. The point of this is to point out what I think is wrong and should not be carried over in to BB:S. Thank you.
Now before I get flames for pointing out the game has problems, let me make it clear, I love the game, and the only two mods that even compare to in fun (sometimes.) are TFC and Science and Industry. However, the case is there's flaws. Nothing's perfect, but you can strive to get there. The goal of this post is only to point out what I see as flawed, and hopefully some of my ideas will be taken in to effect in Source. Now, let us begin. Maps -Let it not be said there are no good maps for BB; however, I think one of it's great weaknesses is a lack of a large amount of well made maps. Most maps you find are no challenge what so ever; you have a selection from a dozen plus guns, unlimited ammo, and somewhere to run to at all times. I am not seeing the fun in this. All it is grab stuff, shoot shoot shoot shoot, grab more ammo, shoot shoot. NO fun. If I want to click repeatedly for no obvious benefit, I will go browse the internet. At least there I'll be doing something productive. We need maps that are well thought out and a challenge. Maps where supplies are low, guns are spread out and it's tough to get to the more powerful ones. Ammo boxes should not be unlimited, if even there at all. Make it a thrill to actually be up against a dozen zombies and just a pistol. A.I. -Now, the A.I. in this game is a wonder. I have yet to see anything compare in a 3rd party half life mod. Again however, there is room for improvement. Obviously a big flaw I notice is they try to get people nearby when they are in different rooms, making it so that they try to walk though walls, making half of them stick out from the other side. I believe in certain maps, it sort of ruins the atmosphere to see two moving arms and half a body sticking out from the walls. On another note, Zobmies have arms. They should be able to reach you when you're on top of a few boxes or a 4 inch ledge seperates you. It's insane that I see people within 3 inches of a zombie but not being bit because the zombie can't 'reach' them. Skills -At this point, I see the skills system a bit broken. Health is only really nessacary if you're either A.) A zombie or B.) Playing on a server where there is no transformation. Speed seems to be alright, but I think the size of your guns should take a negative effect on you, and speed makes up for what the guns do. Skills seems to be the most worthless. Few guns need skills, and even so you can get their in 5 minutes. My recommendation is this: Throw out skills. Make guns based on your level, and make them damn hard to get to. Make people try to succeed in order to use good weapons. The thought of using a chain gun should be a motivating factor, not a weapon everyone should be lugging around. Guns -When I play BB, I don't generally care what pistol I use. Why? Because I notice absolutey no difference. There may be some pistols that take 3-4 shots over say the magnum's two shots, but when playing I really don't notice. I suppose having unlimited ammo is a contributing factor to not caring how much ammo I have, however, that is not the point I'm trying to make. Most guns are the same, the only difference being the model. Pistols? Nearly identical. AK, Colt, Uzis? Same. The double barrel and double glocks (I believe thats what they were) are the only real original weapons. Sniper rifle, shotgun, and chain gun are alright, but they are cliche. Make weapons vary and different, so that you actually care what gun you have and everyone won't run around with a magnum and a double barrel. *Major Gameplay Change* -Now, this is a major change and I'm not sure how this is going to go over, but here's my gameplay idea. First off, when you become a Zombie, it's permanent, and when you die, you come to life as a new one. However, when all people die or the mission is completed, the round resets and everyone is human again. A bit like counter strike, yes, but more effective than the current setup. Lets take a look. At this point, if you get bitten, you become a Zombie. You kill two barnies or a player, and you're human again. So tell me, what is the point of being a zombie? I see next to no one stay permanently Zombie, and that's probably due to the fact they are not as fun and there's Zombies already, why do we need more? Either make zombies mandatory, or not an option at all. And of course, I'd like to see the game stick to being 'realistic' (yes, even if it sn't really going to happen on Earth.) and if you get bit you become a Zombie. Overview -To break this down, what I feel needs to happen is we need better map, making it more of a challenge. Ammo needs to be strictly reduced and the weapons need to be spread out and become more varied. Skills should be revamped and the A.I. should be tweaked. Also, I'd hope that perhaps my idea of gameplay change could at least be taken in to consideration. Small Suggestions -Make everyone always have a flash light, but like HL, keep it on a battery. Would be a bit more scary if you're facing 5 zombies and then your only way to see them dies, eh? -As a player Zombie, slow them down. Why are they special? They were bitten by normal zombies. -Add more models for the zombies. Seeing the same 2 or 3 over and over gets repetetive. Thank you for reviewing my evaluation of the game at this point. I didn't go in to as much detail as I would have liked, and I'm sure there's more I can think of, but this should be a nice start. Feedback would be wonderful. If you need to contact me, my information is below. -Macdeth Email - xmichalejcaboose@gmail.com[/B][B][/B] |
 
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| SNIPER-X |
Posted: July 03, 2006 09:41 am
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 Real zombie Nemesis  Group: Old BB:S team Posts: 368 Joined: February 18, 2006 |
Just so you know,
Brainbread isn't about realism. So wether you enjoy it now or not, you'll have to realize the premisis of the original was about co-op arcade/rambo run and gun shoot fun. So as it is, very few things are/have been fixed due to an inbalanced state of gameplay. But Brainbread is brainbread, so you'll just have to live with that. |
 
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| Mic2070 |
Posted: July 03, 2006 01:51 pm
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 Doom Trooper Group: Old BB:S Betatesters Posts: 1112 Joined: July 29, 2005 |
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| Macdeth |
Posted: July 04, 2006 05:52 am
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Rotten Meat Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: July 02, 2006 |
If you actually read it throughly, you can note most of it IS not on realism, for example A.I, and skills.
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| Mac |
Posted: July 04, 2006 07:03 am
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 Zombie Hunter Group: Members Posts: 265 Joined: December 16, 2004 |
Zombie panic has all you want + more then.
-------------------- Ex-Admin of |A.B.C.|'s Super Hard BB Server
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| Macdeth |
Posted: July 04, 2006 09:54 am
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Rotten Meat Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: July 02, 2006 |
I've played Zombie Panic. In fact, before I played this.
I didn't like it. This is a far superior game, and I was just pointing out the little things I *personally* find wrong with it. You don't have to agree, but there's no need to tell me to go play other games for my opinion. |
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| iliketoblowzombieheadsoff |
Posted: July 04, 2006 10:57 am
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 Ratatatatatatatatatatatattatatt Group: Members Posts: 4896 Joined: May 26, 2006 |
Lol.
I really wanna learn mod-making, and i was thinking of making a mini-mod for HL2 using garry's mod. Although, i dunno how to make a mod out of it, and it also looks complicated, i might as well... make my own game.  That is when i grow up. You will all see... you will all see what ill do. Also i was thinking of being a movie-maker using graphics. Good graphics. -------------------- Current game(s): Uh uh not updatin' this no mo
Looking forward to: Some shit Name Shortcut: Zombie, Isit, Bob(not recommended) |
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| Mac |
Posted: July 04, 2006 08:31 pm
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Zombie Hunter Group: Members Posts: 265 Joined: December 16, 2004 |
Just a suggestion, I wasn't slamming you MacDeth
But the gameplay styles are pretty differant for both games. Though this game does need tweaking, it is most likely 'finished' or 'inactive' .. which leaves waiting for BB:S as all our hopes. -------------------- Ex-Admin of |A.B.C.|'s Super Hard BB Server
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| ^Ben |
Posted: July 05, 2006 02:20 am
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 Real zombie Nemesis Group: Members Posts: 364 Joined: February 05, 2006 |
Maps - Yes I agree with you, some maps have no challenge. We are working to make maps more challenging but the problem at the moment is that we only have one sexy(  ) mapper so we won't be coming out with 100 maps. We are hoping to foster a community to help us with map development once we release our beta version.But personally I think you should have very specific safe areas and danger areas, and yeah the ammo situation where you can just get to the next area and grab unlimited ammo should be looked at. We still want an arcade rambo experience but I think a sense or urgency would 'up the ante' the non unlimited ammunition would be a tricky problem to solve. It would definatly have to be on a per person basis(dont want an idiot stealing all the ammo) but what if someone completly runs out of ammo? They will just suicide and reset their ammo counter. This problem needs to be discussed a little more. AI - We have a little suprise brewing on that front And aiming has been improved so they should be able to hit you when you are on top of something, but we are also discourging mappers to make blatant blocks where zombies cant get to(there should be defined safe areas)Skills - At the moment we are keeping them roughly the same. But we will be looking into making them better in the long run. Guns - Yes I agree about weapons not having enough definiton to them - when people work out that I am working on BBS their first question is "What new guns are their?" and I don't think that adding more guns is a good thing, in that light we are currently making clear distinctions between weapons so each has their own characteristics, we might also be cutting some of the weapons to better acheive this goal. Major gameplay change - this is way to much like Zombie panic. But I do think we should make more gameplay modes maybe we can incorporate these ideas into a completly new If the player zombies are not that fast they are sitting ducks. We are getting more models might not be 100's depends on how much beer we can give Sniper. -------------------- Left the BB:S Team.
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| Mic2070 |
Posted: July 06, 2006 12:28 pm
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Doom Trooper Group: Old BB:S Betatesters Posts: 1112 Joined: July 29, 2005 |
Don't forget everyone, you can make a donation by Beerpal
*Insert music* "I'm too sexy for my mod, too sexy for my mod, so sexy..." Now to the point :
Isn't that what is brainbread about ? A zombie killing fest ? Anyway, I agree on the not-enough-challenging side with some maps *ahem slaywatch ahem ^^*
I think we should wait for ben's "little surprise"
"Skills" also inecrase your damage. 4% a point as I remember. it is NOT worthless (I usually level skills before speed and health, and usualy well ranked on servers) For the "gun size slows you down" part, I don't think it's a good idea. Hell, let it be arcade. And please, please don't make players running faster while putting out their axe.
I already argued that before.
No. Brainbread's gameplay is good, because it's also fun to play as a zombie (Who doesn't like to eat his former partner ?) And being a zombie after getting bitten only one time... way too hard. Do you know how many zombies there are out there ?
Agree'd. Players can already take you out with only one sawed-off shot. -------------------- |
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| Macdeth |
Posted: October 20, 2006 02:12 am
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Rotten Meat Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: July 02, 2006 |
Yes, I know, I just necroed.
Sorry. But I see alot of these "suggestions for source" threads, and wanted mine to be seen for those who don't go grave digging, because I still stand by my points. |
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| mallic |
Posted: October 20, 2006 01:03 pm
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 Penguin Overlord Group: BB:S Team Posts: 3099 Joined: June 08, 2006 |
ewww necro get the filthy body toucher XD
ps when did sc change his avatar -------------------- 
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| Yamaraja |
Posted: November 10, 2006 06:13 am
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Rotten Meat Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: October 29, 2006 |
I didn't even notice this until now.
why would you not want to change anything? I don't get it. if there was no reason to change anything, I'd understand, but there are many things that need fixing and you could make a good game here if you wanted to. not to say Brainbread isn't because I really like it but there are loads of things that need fixing. the zombie system needs to be fixed and this is the main important thing. there is no point for a player to be a zombie. player zombies can't win the match, their only goal is to become human again, which is the team that can win. playing as a zombie isn't fun. they only have a weak looking grab attack, not fitting for a zombie. they should have more than one attack too, like picking up boards and pipes, maybe acid vomiting or other things. and player zombies run way too fast, they seem to even be faster than player humans. and because the zombie team can't win, most servers tell human players not to kill zombie players and vice versa so that zombies can kill cpu humans and get enough points to become human again and so humans can finish their objectives without being attacked by player zombies. this lowers the fun factor even more because you can't kill human players, so you can only wander around and find cpu humans to kill. and it only takes two, then you can suicide and go back to the human team. it's pointless to even have a way to become a zombie. and then there are other issues with the game. the cpu zombies have a weak looking punch attack instead of a biting attack like they should have. or like I said about human zombies, they could pick up boards and pipes to swing or acid vomit. the zombies in Brainbread are the lamest zombies I've ever seen. more objectives. the same four or five objectives isn't cutting it. weapons need improving but I'm sure you're already working on that. zombies can't do anything to you even if you're standing on something a foot or two off the ground. I do think you should be able to use height as an advantage but that's ridiculous though. bottom line is, if you don't change anything you're pretty much wasting your time at this point because I doubt many people will play it for more than a few times just to see all the maps with better graphics. and I think it would suck for you people to waste months of time on this for nothing. you could make a good game by fixing all the problems the last one had but you're not going to? I don't see why. I don't care how Brainbread was, it makes sense to fix things that need to be fixed. This post has been edited by Yamaraja on November 10, 2006 06:19 am |
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| Elite viking |
Posted: November 11, 2006 12:01 am
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 Veteran Lord Carnage Group: Old BB:S Betatesters Posts: 2471 Joined: December 16, 2004 |
I think they are going through a few of said suggestions already.
But just one thing: The missions. There are usually four or five standard ones, I know, but it's very much up to the one making the map whether or not to make new ones. I have seen many variations: turning on reactors, blowing up things ( ), and gathering supplies... options are eeeendleeeesss....Height attacks, yes, those have to be fixed. Very probably they will. Player zombies can be insanely cool to play, if you cooperate a little. When the map supposedly has ended, and players are meant to escape, most of them usually do so. But there's always one or two deciding to rack up the score just a little, and camp the spawn point. But then the four or so player zombies begins to rush. Glee! You can almost see the fear in their polygon faces as a horde of runners approach. It's also damn fun to use both barrels at a player zombie. |
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