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> Why, why, why?, Admins wanna jump in here?
Security Corporate
  Posted: June 02, 2005 08:11 am
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Alright, war has begun...

Renegade, you're still not getting the point here. I don't know why you are disagreeing with Slappy entirely. I mean, he beta tested it! I think he'd know what the Ironoak Team wanted to include the MOD. People are saying this game is designed for PvP, you're saying its not. But you know what I really think is happening here? This MOD is basically Co-op, but PvP is also added in as well! The only thing thats stopping PvP from happening is some servers that restrict it. Besides, Slappy said so himself that even the DEV team was surprised when someone launched a "no PvP" server. So it can go both ways really, but I'd prefer to keep it with PvP to make it more challanging! I mean c'mon, player zombies RUNNING towards you adds some more excitement. I mean its easy to dispatch of the regular zombies. Maps would be too easy if it was just Co-op. Heck, it'd even get boring. I mean think about it:

You can even remove the NPCs that help the player! Doesn't that say something?! Without marines or cops, what will player zombies attack? Their former team mates of course! They wouldn't add all of those "extra difficulty" features if this MOD was entirely for Co-op.
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Till Death Do us Part
Posted: June 02, 2005 01:41 pm
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OWNED

Thank you Security Corp. I was going to say "Let's just ask a dev, shall we?" But it seems you sort of beat me to the punch. Nice job.


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|2enegade
Posted: June 03, 2005 05:06 am
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QUOTE (Security Corporate @ Jun 2 2005, 08:11 AM)
Alright, war has begun...
Renegade, you're still not getting the point here. I don't know why you are disagreeing with Slappy entirely. I mean, he beta tested it! I think he'd know what the Ironoak Team wanted to include the MOD. People are saying this game is designed for PvP, you're saying its not. But you know what I really think is happening here? This MOD is basically Co-op, but PvP is also added in as well! The only thing thats stopping PvP from happening is some servers that restrict it. Besides, Slappy said so himself that even the DEV team was surprised when someone launched a "no PvP" server.

Unfortunately what you fail to realize is that slappy and i are actually in agreement. Not so much as to the intricacies of PvP, but the "unfinished" quality of the game in its entirety.
QUOTE ("Slappy")
it used to be 100% optional to spawn as a human again, thus it was fully possible to play as a zombie for nearly the entire round. the forced respawn feature is something that i fought against, and still believe should not be a part of the game.

You will note, he clearly details that there are parts in the mod that are contradictory to themselves and that there are many features that still need refining, thus your claim that PvP is included due to intention is loosely based on your blatant disregard for the mod's release time. If this mod had been released for 2+ years and was going on version 3.0+, I could understand that a feature still left in, is a feature intended to be left in. HOWEVER this mod is barely past version 1.2, THUS it means that there is still much refinement to be done, including the details of PvP. Thus you cannot claim, just because it remains in the mod that it is sanctioned by the mod makers, for, most likely, it is rather bug/unintended feature.
Thus I remain adament on the fact that PvP, given the early development stages of this mod, is no longer an intended feature (it may have been in early stages, but the play of the game reveals that it is not intended) of the mod, and is most likely going to be completely revamped in the next coming patch.

This post has been edited by |2enegade on June 03, 2005 05:07 am


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Security Corporate
  Posted: June 03, 2005 09:14 am
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Your constant babbling is testing my patience. Why don't you ask a Dev smart guy? Oh you can't, because you might be proven wrong! Holy crap! wink.gif

This post has been edited by Security Corporate on June 04, 2005 01:05 am
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Till Death Do us Part
Posted: June 03, 2005 01:02 pm
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Here, I'll PM Scottish. Then I'll post the reply. That'll settle it for good. PMing him now...


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|2enegade
Posted: June 04, 2005 03:07 am
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QUOTE (Security Corporate @ Jun 3 2005, 09:14 AM)
Your constant babbling is testing my patience. Why don't you ask a Dev smart guy? Oh you can't, because you might be proven wrong! Holy crap! wink.gif

If I have "tested" your patience, let me report its results... it FAILS. Infinite blindness on your part has restricted you from noticing past posts made by the devs, abbeting my theory (slappy, TSS, and others in the past).

Perhaps if you actually tried to use proper debating skills and justifiable arguemenst instead of childish retorts, you may stand to pose a chance of tickling my intrigue.


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Security Corporate
  Posted: June 04, 2005 09:23 am
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I just PMed Lord Scottish. I asked him about whether this MOD is Co-op, PvP, or both. This is what he had to say:

QUOTE (Lord Scottish)
The idea was to do both. As soon as you are a zombie you're supposed to attack players. But of course a serveradmin may make up his own rules, for example a coop only server.
best regards


Proof that this MOD was intended to go in both directions depending on the server. You were saying?

This post has been edited by Security Corporate on June 13, 2005 10:12 pm
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Blue Summer
Posted: June 04, 2005 09:05 pm
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QUOTE (Security Corporate @ Jun 3 2005, 09:14 AM)
Your constant babbling is testing my patience. Why don't you ask a Dev smart guy? Oh you can't, because you might be proven wrong! Holy crap! wink.gif

Yo, you wanna lay off Renegade? In this forum we don't slag people off with an opinion; just because we have a different view to him and debating this doesn't mean we shouldn't treat him normally.


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This is what Ive said for the past couple months every time has requested source: BB source is highly unlikely because the mod team (Ironoak) has decided to use the crystal engine to create an rpg, although they have said there is a small chance of going to source but please, for the sake of all mankind, do not request a port and/or create polls, or even useless threads about the porting of BB, because it is most likely not going to happen, thank you for reading.

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Till Death Do us Part
Posted: June 05, 2005 02:07 pm
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The idea was to do pvp. As soon as you are a zombie you're supposed to attack players. But of course a serveradmin may make up his own rules, for example a coop only server.
best regards

-----Lord Scottish



QUOTE
Scottish, those among the community who believe in PvP would be very grateful if you could drop by the "Why, Why, Why?!" topic in the questions forum, and tell us, once and for all, if PvP was an intended feature. If you can't do that, then please give me another PM as a reply. I'll post your reply on the board. That's only if you don't reply yourself. though.

Thank you so much.



EDIT: Whoop, just saw the sec. corp. just posted the same thing. Ah, it's just as well.

This post has been edited by Till Death Do us Part on June 05, 2005 02:08 pm


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|2enegade
Posted: June 05, 2005 10:13 pm
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QUOTE (Security Corporate @ Jun 4 2005, 09:23 AM)
Proof that this MOD was intended to go in both directions depending on the server. You were saying?

QUOTE (Lord Scottish)
The idea was to do both. As soon as you are a zombie you're supposed to attack players. But of course a serveradmin may make up his own rules, for example a coop only server.
best regards


As I was saying...

QUOTE (Renegade)
But, in any case, as I continue to stand by, due to the irreconcilable differences in our gameplay beliefs, there remains one, undeniable truth that I continue to profess: regardless of your beliefs, for the sake of mutual respect and common decency you MUST acknowledge and adhere to the rules of the server you are playing on. I believe everyone can agree with that, no?


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Security Corporate
  Posted: June 05, 2005 11:22 pm
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That was no relevance. Yes its nice if it goes two ways, which makes this topic a tie, put I'll push foward even more since a tie doesn't cut it for me anymore. This is a bit contradictive to previous posts made, but I don't care now.

Read Lord Scottish's reply again. It specifically says you're supposed to attack other players when you are a zombie. If those "PvP Restricted" server never existed, this wouldn't even be a problem. So really, this MOD was pretty much designed for PvP when people become zombies. Co-op is just there so long if everyone stays human.

This post has been edited by Security Corporate on June 05, 2005 11:25 pm
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(4THIDUSA) SSG H.
Posted: June 06, 2005 08:09 pm
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Quote by Renegade
"Thus I remain adament on the fact that PvP, given the early development stages of this mod, is no longer an intended feature (it may have been in early stages, but the play of the game reveals that it is not intended) of the mod, and is most likely going to be completely revamped in the next coming patch."


Well, you have been proven wrong, the devs spoke, now you change to say you were right all along, about obeying server rules, well drop it, let it go, you lost.
Saying obey the server rules isnt a way that makes this arguement even, this discussion was not about server ops doing what they want, they always will, this was about renegade saying one thing and someone else saying another thing about this game, renegade lost the arguement

This post has been edited by (4THIDUSA) SSG H. on June 06, 2005 08:13 pm


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|2enegade
Posted: June 06, 2005 09:09 pm
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Your lack of competence on this subject has led to your failure to realizethe true nature of this discussion. My sentiments on this topic are undeniably right and unable to be proven wrong for you see, you clumsily mistook this debate as one over PvP in the game. PvP and its role in the game was a sidetrack topic. The main topic was NOT "is PvP part of the game", but rather was a question asking someone to explain why he was banned from the server for PvPing. And my explanation as such:
QUOTE (Renegade)

But, in any case, as I continue to stand by, due to the irreconcilable differences in our gameplay beliefs, there remains one, undeniable truth that I continue to profess: regardless of your beliefs, for the sake of mutual respect and common decency you MUST acknowledge and adhere to the rules of the server you are playing on. I believe everyone can agree with that, no?

Is undeniably correct, for it explains percisly why he was banned.

Sure, this topic unevitably wandered into the discussion of PvP in the game, but any common sensical person would realize such a discussion could never truly be "won" because it is based solely on opinion. Even the "quote" you posted from the dev is based on opinion. It is spoken by the dev, however, all-be-it it is still an opinion. I disagree with it of course, in that there are obvious conflictions in presenting BB as PvP game (most notably the lack of teams that I described previously). However, as I stated, the true "right" answer to this topic is one in which the topic question is explained. And the one that I gave (above) both explains the topic question perfectly and is undeniably true, thus I have not "lost", in fact I have won, because I have won the only tangeable arguement in this discussion (your arguement, an arguement based on nothing more than opinion, can never be "won" solely for that fact, that it is based on opinion).

You claim the discussion was not about disobeying server rules and ops, when in fact, if you had bothered to read this discussion in its entirety, was based on why he was banned.
Ultimately, your achievement is of no value (the dev said its PvP... so what? there's still going to be servers that don't condone this), but my achievement is of universal importance becaues it outlines a justifiable system in which everyone can play BB and be content and agree on.


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gamersha794
Posted: June 06, 2005 11:24 pm
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QUOTE (Dragontail @ Apr 3 2005, 12:09 PM)
Anyway, I follow the different rules on each server but I would argue that this one really ruins the bb experience. The whole point of being a zombie is to attack the players. That's why its part of the game right? Maybe someone can explain it so it makes more sense to me.

I think the original question was in fact, If you're a zombie isn't it a part of the game to attack humans. He said he would follow the server rules, so that really isn't even part of the original question.


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(4THIDUSA) SSG H.
Posted: June 07, 2005 05:27 am
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QUOTE (|2enegade @ Apr 4 2005, 02:54 AM)
If TSS were still around he'd say the same as I would. THIS GAME IS NOT DESIGNED FOR PvP action!!!! Why do you think you auto-suicide after a set time? There are deliberate attempts to prevent zombie players from turning this game into a ZP PvP mod. PvP should not be encouraged.

Your first post had nothing to do with his question, you go off about how the game is supposed to be, and have since been proven wrong, you hear the statement from the dev about this game and dismiss it as an opinion, and therefore not right, so your able to still think that you are still correct in your tiny little narrow mind.

You try to write these paragraph answers, somehow thinking they make you look smart, ignoring the fact that your statement is wrong. I read the arguement, that you have since lost, and now the more you argue your incorrect position, based on your incorrect statement, the more you look like a moron or a child who refuses to except the truth.

Obeying server rules, is no universal truth, you have professed to us nothing. A proper debate ends when your side has been proven to be factually wrong, you made a statement, the maker of the game made a statement, that proves yours to be wrong, you have nothing to debate about when you are completely wrong. You are now a complete idiot, have a nice fantasy life, since in it you must always be correct.


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